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Stick with my current full-stack background or pivot to mobile for side projects / job search?

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Junior Software Engineer at Unemployed6 months ago

Hi, I last posted here: https://www.jointaro.com/question/cDRnq7HznIAyJBpcKnoJ/how-can-i-go-about-getting-back-into-the-industry/ . I’m a junior since I have 1-2 YOE and my bachelors in comp sci from NYU is outdated from 2019. Some people think I should go for a masters maybe in AI / ML or security or some other specialization to try to get back into the industry. Since I mainly worked with JavaScript / TypeScript and React and some Python / Ruby on Rails, do you recommend sticking to that stack or picking up something new altogether like mobile (I prefer iOS over Android) when it comes to implementing my ideas?

I recently completed some free hire train deploy program over 10 weeks that uses Java SpringBoot mainly in order to land a job via one of there clients. I last worked at Civis Analytics, a data collaboration company from November 2021 to December 2022 before getting laid off due to company downsizing using JS / TS on the frontend and some Ruby on Rails, Docker, and AWS on the backend. As a web dev at West Point, I utilized tech such as Vue and Flask but I didn't get to do much as they didn't have version control set up so I quit after working on some mocks after 6 months. I haven’t really been getting interviews since failing the Meta L4 interview. Thanks.

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Discussion

(9 comments)
  • 3
    Profile picture
    AI/ML Eng @ Series C startup
    6 months ago

    Hm. I graduated at the same time too. With all the data points you've given, I don't think this is even a tech stack issue. You're using bootcamps/degrees as an intellectual crutch.

    Like,

    • more bootcamps/degrees won't help you feel smarter
    • switching tech stacks won't help you build cooler things

    You still need the core SWE job search things like writing a great resume and passing the interview rounds. But doing the same thing everyone else has been doing... phoning in for a 9-5 isn't going to cut it anymore.

    If I were you, I would

    • Find a meaningful open-source project that you'd be willing to commit to every single day for ~2 months
    • Write a killer resume. If you're not getting any callbacks after 15-20 applications, it's a dud. Every line should be a banger.
    • Practice interviewing, once you start landing at least 2-3 a week. Your resume isn't an effective hook until then.

    You can do it. If you need some help, we can set up a much more granular action plan to get this done. You're in a much better situation than I was in mid 2023 (MS dropout, no CS degree). Ping me on Slack or Linkedin if you need to

    Personal Anecdote

    You're in a bit of a hole, but that's fine. I've been in a similar situation before. It's never too late to turn it around. My brutally-honest resume is:

    • Graduated 2019, bombed maybe 30-40 interviews (including Confluent when they were $1B valuation)
    • 2020, got wrecked by pandemic + worked some odd jobs
    • 2021 - 2022, played mobile games on my iPad + did CS courses
    • 2021-2023, went through the motions doing a Master's in CS
    • 2023, dropped out and did open-source
    • 2024, finally got an AI job after I got tired of working in a restaurant (tips were good though)

    Not the optimal path. But hey, at least I have fun building things now. And I washed dishes really fast after Thanksgiving dinner.

  • 0
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    Tech Lead @ Robinhood, Meta, Course Hero
    6 months ago

    NYU is a top school, you got a classic 4-year Computer Science degree. That holds a decent amount of weight. Because of this, I have some hope that your problem is largely a resume problem.

    Here are the steps I recommend:

    1. Go through the resume course and apply all the advice: Get More Interviews: Write A Stellar Resume As A Software Engineer
      1. To reinforce, you can also go to the Taro community resume meetups like this one which is literally happening in ~1.5 hours (5PM PT, 8PM New York): https://www.jointaro.com/event/dsa-mock-interview-resume-review-group-session-f7ba3/
    2. After you polish your resume, apply to minimum 250 jobs. Unfortunately it's the holiday season right now, so you can apply to jobs in December but don't expect to hear much back. In other words, don't count them towards the 250. Once 2025 rolls around though, each application counts towards the 250 quota. Digital ink is cheap, so applying to 250 jobs can easily be done within 1 month. From here, 1 of 2 things will happen:
      1. You get interviews (5+ chances) - Now it's a math problem. Just keep applying and expanding top of funnel. If you are preparing right, you will eventually get a role.
      2. You aren't getting calls back - You simply don't have enough meat on the bone. Now you need to do something like open-source or side projects as Elliot mentioned.

    All of this is covered in the master job searching course: Ace Your Tech Interview And Get A Job As A Software Engineer

    Make sure to apply to a lot of startups via platforms like Wellfound. The smaller, the better. Those companies are more willing to take a bet on talent as they don't have much leverage. This is also covered in the overall course.

  • 0
    Profile picture
    Tech Lead @ Robinhood, Meta, Course Hero
    6 months ago

    Stick with my current full-stack background or pivot to mobile for side projects / job search?

    To answer the original question, I don't think a mobile pivot is a good move. You have actual work experience on different stacks. If you are going to do side projects (which you probably should unless you are doing open-source), you should stick with your current strength, which appears to be web-dev (Vue / React / JavaScript/TypeScript). Front-web is pretty solid for side projects. In this market, it's far better to be pragmatic and build on top of existing assets.

    If you were to do mobile, you would need pretty compelling side projects just to have a chance as you are starting from 0 (minimum 10,000+ users probably). I got my 1st Android role in 2015, but I had already started working on Android side projects as a UCLA student back in 2013. So after 2 years, I was able to have a few apps with 10,000+ users. I imagine you don't want to spend 1-2 years being unemployed on a risky mobile pivot, so I think sticking to web is far safer.

    On a side note, employment and work experience are king. Even if you hate a job and aren't doing anything there, you should keep it. You can massage the narrative in interviews to make it seem like you were doing something, similar to what I did with my PayPal experience. For the future, don't quit jobs unless you have something else lined up.

    • 0
      Profile picture
      Junior Software Engineer [OP]
      Unemployed
      6 months ago

      As for backend, would you say I can use anything that floats my boat and solves my problem? I haven't really used Ruby on Rails since getting laid off and used Python (Flask) at my first job and Java SpringBoot and C# /.NET as part of upskilling; I have used Node.js and Express for small projects in school but not really in a real job. Thanks.

    • 1
      Profile picture
      Tech Lead @ Robinhood, Meta, Course Hero
      6 months ago

      As mentioned before, it's best to build on previous experience. Ruby on Rails and Python Flask are both good, used by a lot of startups (Ruby on Rails in particular is a very common startup stack IIRC).

      I don't think you should pivot to some new stack like Node.js where you don't have any work experience with it.

      In terms of Ruby on Rails vs. Python Flask, an exercise you can do is look at 100 jobs you are interested in, particularly among startups. From there, see whether Ruby on Rails or Python Flask is more common.

    • 0
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      Junior Software Engineer [OP]
      Unemployed
      6 months ago

      Would you say that a 2 year gap is surmountable? Thanks as I feel anxious with every passing day; I can't go back in time to the day I was laid off. I plan to attend today's mock resume / dsa / sys design taro meetup mainly for resume stuff. Thanks.

    • 0
      Profile picture
      Tech Lead @ Robinhood, Meta, Course Hero
      6 months ago

      Would you say that a 2 year gap is surmountable? Thanks as I feel anxious with every passing day; I can't go back in time to the day I was laid off. I plan to attend today's mock resume / dsa / sys design taro meetup mainly for resume stuff. Thanks.

      It's going to be hard but it's certainly possible. Your degree is quite valuable, and you do have work experience.

      On top of applying to full jobs, I highly recommend looking for freelancing work on websites like Upwork and Fiverr. You just want someone somewhere to pay you money to write code. This is sort of a shortcut for side projects as if someone is willing to pay a couple hundred or thousand $$$ for a piece of software, they probably have a teed up user base in mind.

  • 0
    Profile picture
    Junior Software Engineer [OP]
    Unemployed
    15 hours ago

    In retrospect, I think I messed up by quitting a $60k Software Dev 1 job this past Monday, mainly doing client support operations using C#, .NET, and Azure. I quit four weeks in during onboarding as the manager doesn’t know how to code, and I didn’t have access to virtual machines, etc. The job was remote and everyone had cameras off. I thought I was miserable doing remote work and had imposter syndrome—being a master of none in isolation and feeling as though I was getting paid for free. I realize you (Alex) told me to never quit a job before having something lined up, as I can lie about my experience, etc., but what’s done is done. Now, I’m back to working at Starbucks.

    Before then, I was laid off in November 2022 with 1.5 YOE, mainly using JavaScript, TypeScript, and React, and some backend in Ruby on Rails, Python, AWS, and Docker. I graduated in May 2019 with a BA from NYU. I am working on a project to analyze music lyrics using OpenAI, etc., but I wonder if I sabotaged my tech career at this point. I do realize you said to only do projects to increase skills and not to get a job.

    I did get accepted into Georgia Tech OMSCS, and I am thinking of trying it out for at least a semester before fully moving on to a trade like electrical work or plumbing as a way of filling in any gaps in knowledge and maybe getting internships. The degree would only force me to study, as I slacked off in undergrad after doing basic programming and DSA. What is your recommendation? I was told to maybe try out Formation and other services found on LinkedIn, but I can’t afford that and should probably just man up and do it myself or leave tech.

    • 0
      Profile picture
      Tech Lead @ Robinhood, Meta, Course Hero
      7 hours ago

      What's done is done - All we can do is move forward. I highly recommend not using services like Formation as they are indeed very expensive, and I think you need to build up your personal foundation first.

      I'm sorry that things have been so rough for you. My advice right now is to do some serious introspection and ask yourself if you actually like software engineering. Look back on your entire career so far (both your jobs and your side projects) and ask yourself if there were any moments that genuinely felt fun, where the time just melted away because you were enjoying coding too much.

      If there were no such moments, I recommend leaving the industry. It's absolutely brutal for junior engineers like yourself right now, and if you don't have deep passion, you won't be able to conjure up the grit necessary to succeed. You can find happiness outside of tech, and at the end of the day, I just want everybody in the Taro community to be happy.