Hi there! I have a pretty lengthy story to describe the value I'm bringing in my current situation. I will have a part 2 of this in the comments.
Last November, I started a 6 month contract software engineer job. The role was supposed to be for a junior developer, and entail database and cloud work. I was placed in the most profitable subdivision of the most profitable organization in the business. Honestly, I ended up doing more than what was just in the résumé. I did backend work, coding for the cloud, DevOps, incorporated some front end work early in my time there, and am currently playing systems admin while our systems admin is out. Another way I show worth by continually inventing automation scripts to save hours of labor and eliminate chance of human error. Which is something software engineers are supposed to do anyway, but the way I go about it in this firm - if I see something time consuming that culd be automated, and I invent a solution right off the bat. It’s not like they have to tell me to do something, or how to do it. I just dig in myself. Thanks to that Taro course on onboarding, I remembered to make an onboarding guide, and helped multiple new technologists adjust to working there. Recently, I went to an API convention about API security on my day off, which is something they’re interested in advancing their codebase in and integrating into future architectures.
I was told by my manager “I am happy and proud of all the work you’ve done and continue to do.” Over the past few months, I’ve been working closely with his manager as I’ve taken the system admin duties. His manager always compliments the way I approach problem solving. When I’ve asked for feedback, that manager said I “exceeded all expectations of my contract”. Honestly, I LOVE working there. The people are great, and I learn every day. I want to continue my career there for as long as I can, with the best people, best learning, and best culture in the company.
My manager’s manager and I had a conversation a few days ago. They want to convert me to full time in a couple of months. Nothing’s written yet, but it looks like they really, REALLY want to write the official offer letter. He put in a number to HR as a recommendation for what I should be offered. Next, I have to give them a number of what I would like. This number is for HR to run a calculation of a salary they can give me.
I think the best offer is the offer you can without regrets. It's harder to find a good work environment than the high salary.
I took a pay cut once to join a place where I wanted to work. It's a gamble at that point because I haven't worked with them.
However, you have worked with these people. How much do you think the salary/equity increase would worth leaving this company.
I assume that you're still young. You still have time to grow and get a pay bump later when you have more experience.
High pay doesn't mean happiness in life. Enough pay with a happy work worth more.
Congrats on the verbal offer! It seems like a lot of stuff is going well. It's true that a good work environment is worth more than money, but money is also incredibly important, especially in the current economy and its uncertainty. Make sure you're paid something respectable.
As for what's respectable, it's hard to tell without knowing the company. If it's FAANG, junior engineer total compensation is $160k - $215k in the US. The average company is more like $90k - $130k. And if it's a small startup, the range is lower as they don't have a lot of cash.
When it comes to giving a number, you ideally don't give one as Rahul talks about in the negotiation course here: https://www.jointaro.com/course/the-insiders-guide-to-negotiating-your-tech-salary-and-compensation/dont-give-a-number-first/
If you do need to give a number, go on levels.fyi and give something on the higher end of the band. If there's nothing on levels.fyi, maybe just throw our $125k or something? (I'm assuming you're in the US)
Part 2
During the talk, he was saying he “wants to keep employees happy, and a big part of that is with good salaries”, as well as “honest pay for honest work”, and “the sky is the limit for you”. So I thought once I get full time, I could get a really good salary. Then, he also used phrases like “promotion is just a title”, referenced a lot about the great PTO and the ability to live a stable life with this company, and said “we hope you stay with us”. So I didn’t know if he was hinting that they don’t pay much compared to other places. I also don’t know how much equity this company offers yet.
To me it looks like I have leverage. The company has every data point to know I’m a valuable asset in a cash cow of the company, who can offer even more. But there’s not many data points about salary or equity visible to me, especially for someone at my level. The few data points I’ve seen look very weird online. Some say as low as 85k. Others say as high as 145k. Perhaps just because I’m looking at different states? Either way, I want to figure out mine, and how to get equity. After a few days of thinking about it, I think I'm content with the money I'm paid right now, so if I can get some equity with my current salary being the same, I would appreciate the heck out of that. But I'd certainly like the highest offer possible.
I do like a big salary, but I appreciate the opportunity to grow with great people who respect me the most. On top of that - the tech conference I mentioned, this company said they would reimburse me for expenses to conventions like that as long as I ask them beforehand. They’re investing in ME. That shows me a LOT of respect and trust, which is the most important thing to me. I think I’m gonna aim for the salary of a mid level at the company, but the maximum portion of that. But I also don’t wanna ask for something astronomically too high that would make them give up on me, either. The companies I worked at in the beginning of my career gave me starting salaries under 80k. They also just played off the return offers with flashy amenities in the office.
The people here are very honest and very respectful, and I just want to make sure I have all the information to get the best salary I can get while I maintain that respect for them. What is everyone's advice for how I can achieve the best return offer possible so I can remain happy, helpful, and hungry in my role?
I appreciate anyone other than Alex and Rahul who are willing to read all this. Something I learned from the negotiation course on Taro - it's kind of like making an ice cream sundae. The salary and equity are the ice cream, the sign on bonus is the cherry, the health insurance and PTO is whatever caramel or chocolate sauce you like, amenities in the office are sprinkles. The ice cream is the important part, so you have to add that as a base. The sauce adds more flavor. You have a cherry on top because you don't make a sundae by putting the cherry first. And, the sprinkles are pointless. Feel free to sprinkle that analogy in your future talks about negotiation. Appreciate y'all!
Evan