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How can multiple senior engineers be on a team?

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Mid-Level Software Engineer at Taro Community2 months ago

According to the dynamic that taro defines as senior the senior scales impact across 4-10 people? How can 3 senior engineers scale impact across the 2-8 junior or mid level engineers? That sounds like too many cooks in the kitchen.

But I also hear the opposite is classic scarcity mindset and this isn’t Ivy League admissions for L4-L5 at top tech companies where 3 mid levels clear the next level bar consistently but only one can make it and the others are stuck until they switch teams or get put on a pip.

Abundance mindset is key here so I am missing something. Any insights would be really helpful.

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(6 comments)
  • 1
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    Software Engineer @ Amazon
    a month ago

    You've got a good point. A senior engineer does scale their impact on a few other engineers and the overall product. However, the impact doesn't stop at their own team, it does scale across teams/orgs/businesses. In Big tech, one team rarely owns a product or a service end to end.

    Getting promoted to your next level is not a 0-sum game. Unfortunately some teams/orgs use that as bargaining chips to get more out of a mid/junior engineer. If you think you are in such a team, its best to look for a new team.

  • 0
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    Tech Lead @ Robinhood, Meta, Course Hero
    2 months ago

    Good question! The answer really is just that most high-performing engineering teams will have multiple senior projects. Back when I was at Instagram Ads, we always had minimum 3 big projects going on at the same time (this was stressful, but it's why FAANG engineers get paid the big bucks haha).

    A project can also be so big (Staff or Senior Staff level) that it can be decomposed into multiple senior-level sub-projects. I have also seen this where the team just gets 1 massive project for the half, and it's just so big that it can "feed" the entire team.

    But I also hear the opposite is classic scarcity mindset and this isn’t Ivy League admissions for L4-L5 at top tech companies where 3 mid levels clear the next level bar consistently but only one can make it and the others are stuck until they switch teams or get put on a pip.

    On a quick note, Amazon is notorious for this ☠️

    This is why it's so important to have good engineering managers and executives. If a team doesn't have enough scope, things become a zero-sum game and you get scarcity mindset -> Hunger Games. I have seen this many, many times as well.

    A lot of engineering is like 4D chess, especially at Big Tech where there's so many engineers who need meaty scope to justify their huge TCs.

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    Mid-Level Software Engineer
    Taro Community
    a month ago

    So if a E5 is expected to lead the whole project is it like they assign the work to the E4 and E3 engineers? Isn’t this like the equivalent of trying to get promoted to being a manager or staff at a less cutting edge company to qualify? Right now I own subsystems of projects and am proactive in tracing issues down in those areas. But I physically haven’t earned the trust to review 2x the code I write.

    IMO this feels like the bar for me is to try to lead the team to operate at E5. Is this overkill or actually factual? Especially for a first time break in?

    basically I turned down a meta loop for E5+ cuz I didn’t think I was close to ready for this. I asked to go through a E4 loop but hiring is closed. Did I make the right call?

    • 0
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      Tech Lead @ Robinhood, Meta, Course Hero
      a month ago

      So if a E5 is expected to lead the whole project is it like they assign the work to the E4 and E3 engineers? Isn’t this like the equivalent of trying to get promoted to being a manager or staff at a less cutting edge company to qualify?

      Yep, you more or less nailed it. E5 at Meta is generally regarded as a tech lead (especially now with the higher bar), so they need to show that they can delegate to E4s/E3s. This is what is expected of EM/Staff at less prestigious companies, which is why Meta down-levels 80%+ of the time for folks from these companies.

      There is nuance here though as sometimes a project is so technically complex that the E5 actually shouldn't delegate to E4s/E3s and simply doing it is worthy of E5 scope. You will see this a lot in infra teams.

      basically I turned down a meta loop for E5+ cuz I didn’t think I was close to ready for this. I asked to go through a E4 loop but hiring is closed. Did I make the right call?

      I actually think you should have just gone through the E5 loop anyways and see what happens. If you do really well fundamentally but aren't showing enough E5 behaviors, there's a decent chance they try to place you as an E4 (even if hiring is closed, there's always random backfills that pop up).

    • 0
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      Mid-Level Software Engineer
      Taro Community
      a month ago

      So yes you should focus on true growth, but if u need to keep going without trying to play the faang or bust card, the logical option for pushing for the true E4 to E5 top tier performance bar without the faang brand is to get into these title inflated senior roles that might actually be a high end E4 and push manager.

      Do you recommend trying to secure those roles?

      I am probably trending towards this type of promotion in my company and the bar is be technical strong own complex code and be proactive independently and reactively help others. But this is not the true meta E5 bar.

      If I get this promotion or intervirw for a similar position I am led to believe that don’t expect to get into faang at E5 expect a downlevel.

      all I am trying to say is I truly believe in this market being able to follow the e4-5 course might need that intermediate step of that title inflated role.

      How does this sound?

    • 0
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      Tech Lead @ Robinhood, Meta, Course Hero
      a month ago

      In general, you always want to be pushing for promotions as much as possible (even at non-FAANG level companies), both for the genuine growth and the buffer to protect yourself against the likely downlevel when you do make the jump.