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How is the market right now for junior engineers?

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Entry-Level Software Engineer at Taro Communitya year ago

Hey, I just posted a question related to me considering to quit my job here:

Should I leave my company due to effects of commute? (jointaro.com)

TLDR: I am seriously considering quitting my job due to the commute, I live in SF, have 1+ years of experience and am looking to work in the city/remote. I have 6+ months of savings and am a U.S. citizen. Effectively, I'd say there's a 95% chance I'll quit my job in Jan 2024.

Considering this, I'm evaluating the current tech job market.

Generally, my impressions are that while the overall economy is doing quite well, the tech market is in a bit of a lull w/ potential layoffs in 2024-2025. We had the major overhiring of 2021-2022, then the layoffs in early 2023 and now are in a period of stasis relative to the bull market of the past 10 years+. I believe this is also due to the end of zero interest loans making capital expensive. This then leads to profits being more emphasized, then cost-cutting in large corporations (employees being a major cost, so layoffs occuring) and then difficulty for startups to raise money.

Additionally, I recently read The Pragmatic Engineer's take on Spotify's recent 17% layoff.

"Unfortunately, I suspect Spotify is early in having a realization which other tech companies will also have, next year. With the zero interest rate period (ZIRP) over, it’s expensive to borrow cash. Spotify making a loss meant it was effectively borrowing money in order to operate. Turning a profit is more urgent than when capital was cheap. But how do you turn a profit if you cannot significantly increase revenue? You cut costs, and the biggest costs for most tech companies are employees, sadly.

As a result, Spotify could well become profitable, assuming it generates similar revenue in future. And this is exactly the plan; to keep doing the same as before, but with fewer people.

In this way, Spotify’s cuts make business sense in the context of business growth slowing, persistent loss-making, and a hiring spree in 2021-2022 which didn’t boost revenue. These cuts may be surprising for many at Spotify, but probably not for the leadership team. The only question is how many other companies are in the same position as Spotify, but with leaderships yet to draw the same conclusion from the economic conditions.

This is probably a good reminder that the tech jobs market remains volatile. If you have a stable job, it could be a good time to put aside some earnings for a nest egg, stay engaged with your network, and to position yourself to work in areas seen as profit centers, not cost centers."

What are your impressions of the tech market right now?
Any recommendations of how to navigate the market or resources to utilize?
Anything advice years-of-experience specific (Junior engineers vs. senior engineers vs tech leads vs. etc)?

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Discussion

(7 comments)
  • 8
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    Entry-Level Software Engineer [SDE 1] at Amazon
    a year ago

    I genuinely do think the market will get better in the first half of 2024 (J. Powell announced rate cuts next year, SPY is up and gas prices/mortgage rates are coming down) but I do think that will take some time to propagate.

    I agree with Alex on this one in that it sounds like you enjoy your job minus the commute so my recommendation is that you try to currently work out prepping/applying/interviewing while working.

    Believe it or not, some people find it easier to prepare/apply/interview while being employed (I'm one of them). Even though there is less time in the day,

    • Being employed forces you to have a structured day
    • Being employed forces you to socialize with others
    • You don't have to worry about an employment gap when you are employed
    • If you are unemployed and spend the majority of your time interview prepping, you might have high expectations for passing your next interview. Interviews, as we all know, are random and if you fail you might feel bad given how much effort you put into preparing. Sometimes it's nice to accomplish small wins at work to keep you going
  • 5
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    Entry-Level Software Engineer [SDE 1] at Amazon
    a year ago

    I got laid off from AWS with 2 YOE. The job market for junior engineers is terrible. I am having 5 - 10 times more difficulty getting a job than when I graduated even though I have 2 YOE at AWS.

  • 3
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    Tech Lead @ Robinhood, Meta, Course Hero
    a year ago

    Also, I highly recommend NOT quitting your job. From your other post, it seems like it's a very good gig minus the commute with decent pay, chill culture, and great WLB. Try to land the role while staying employed. Here's why:

    1. Money (duh)
    2. Healthcare (getting healthcare on your own in the US sucks and COBRA is expensive)
    3. No resume gap
    4. You don't know how long the job hunt will take

    My advice is to use your remote days where you don't get drained by the commute to go hard and do a lot of job applications + interview prep.

    You also mentioned that your company is pretty generous with PTO, so you can use that to take interviews and prepare.

  • 2
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    Tech Lead @ Robinhood, Meta, Course Hero
    a year ago

    What are your impressions of the tech market right now?

    Pretty terrible but clearly improving. As a concrete example, check out this article I revisit every once in a while: A comprehensive list of 2023 tech layoffs

    It has this very nice bar chart of all the layoffs across the year, and you can very clearly see it going down. A lot of companies have bottomed out when it comes to layoffs meaning that:

    1. They're not pumping more talented engineers into the candidate pool who would compete with you
    2. If you get a job, you're less likely to lose it quickly due to layoffs as companies are quickly adopting more responsible budgets

    From anecdotal evidence in the Taro community (check out #job-searchers-accountability-group in Slack), a lot more people are getting interviews and landing offers, even at FAANG. While hiring is still way, way down (especially compared to peak 2021), several companies are hiring again, including Meta.

    It will definitely be hard for you to find a new role, but you have 2 big advantages in having prior work experience and being local in literally the most important tech hub in the world. I'm fairly confident that someone living in SF Bay Area/Seattle/NYC who has some work experience already and has the backing of the Taro community can find a new job within H1 2024.

    • 1
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      Friendly Tarodactyl
      Taro Community
      24 days ago

      Has it really improved? It seems like a barren hellscape that has continued to get worse, especially for juniors, to a degree that I think is difficult to actually comprehend if you are far removed from this level.

      I've followed resume advice from this site, and the Tech Resume Inside and Out, and held my first full time software engineer position for 2.5 years now, and sent out 1000+ applications over the past nearly 2 years (it's small, disorganized, and I am stagnating there. There are no tests except ones I've written, the boss hand crafts json instead of serializing an object and named one of the most important methods in the code base "do_work").

      I've had about a 1.8% application response rate, and one job offer that was an entry level salary and a pay cut and they refused to negotiate even a single dollar, so I refused it. In retrospect, I'd go back in time out of sheer desperation and accept it, as it seems like the job market has only continued to get worse. There are normally 100-300+ people per hour applying to job board positions that are not obvious scams, and the total seems to normally be 3000-5000+ applicants. This indeed job posting index for software engineers shows the number of postings is now lower than during the trough of the covid pandemic. I am not sure applying for an even higher volume of jobs somehow is the answer at this point.

      A course here said reaching out to an employer directly basically doesn't work, except maybe for small companies if you get them at the right time.

      I guess I should try to build some user getting side project or somehow become an open source master outside my full time job to attract more attention, but it seems like networking or knowing the right person must be basically the only way to actually get a job right now if you are junior / early career and don't have some kind of stand out background with a top university CS degree, internship at big tech, an industry-disrupting side project, etc.???

      Sorry for the rant, it just feels extremely bleak early career job wise. Definitely wondering if it was not extremely foolish to switch careers to software engineering, and what my backup plan could be. $250bn a year is being spent on AI which seems likely to continue to reduce the headcount to make up for the cash spent and push people to do more with less, Microsoft laying off 6000 with 25bn quarterly profits, higher than wall street expected, etc.

      Hopefully there's some cycle that will improve, but damn...

      Wondering if anyone has had any luck networking cold or reaching out to small local employers, and how they achieved it? For a while I was trying the methods described in the 2 hour job search book, and got some informational interviews and a couple of referral offers, but it went nowhere. Gave that up after a month or two. Probably should give it another go.

    • 1
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      Tech Lead @ Robinhood, Meta, Course Hero
      24 days ago

      Has it really improved? It seems like a barren hellscape that has continued to get worse, especially for juniors...

      A big curveball was the recent US presidential election, specifically the tariffs (and the fear surrounding them) coming out of that.

      As someone who runs Taro, I closely keep track of career outcomes of Taro members over time. There was a clear delta between 2023 (literally 0 laid-off juniors I know getting jobs) and the first 3 quarters of 2024 (several laid-off juniors in Taro getting jobs, even at top companies like ServiceNow).

      But yeah, the market in 2025 is shaping up to the real bad unfortunately, especially for folks on the junior/early mid-level end of the spectrum 🥺

    • 1
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      Thoughtful Tarodactyl
      Taro Community
      23 days ago

      2% response rate is really good. I understand the frustration with sending out 100s of apps, but respectfully you should be aiming for 100 apps a week. 1000 over 2 years is quite frankly not a lot. It's very doable with like 30-40 mins of effort a day/15 apps a day using simplify to automate the repetitive parts. This should get you 2 interviews a week at your rate.

      My biggest advice is you need to lock in with leetcode. The current market is one where you wont get many interviews, but the interviews you do get which you eventually will, you need to be on your A game. You cannot afford to start prepping for leetcode style interviews AFTER you get an interview. Also you're extremely likely to get leetcode in atleast 1 round